Is 11th dimension more "punk rock" than punk rock?

Sep 23

Is 11th dimension more "punk rock" than punk rock?

Posted by Max Fischer on

When I think of bands like Green Day it seems to me that this type of music is no longer "rebellious" as it once was when it was first created.. but then take Julian's 11th dimension.. it is full of elements of pop music AND classical music.

But IMO the way Julian uses these elements and coming from where he was as an artist -- coming from a rock and roll genre and making something like 11th dimension.. it seems so hardcore counter culture to me. I think Julian making 11th dimension in this context is incredibly hardcore and rebellious and subversive in it's own unique way.. and I think he fully realizes this.

Making a weird ass hardcore pop song with philosophical overtones seems incredibly bad ass to me.. am I alone on this?

Replies for this Forum Topic

Those would qualify for what I am talking about too.. even though they haven't been on TRL.. Because they have an established genre and follow it's rules explicitly.

It's like how kids think they are rebels who are goth and whatnot.. but they all dress exactly the same.. it's it's own form of conformity.

[quote="Max Fischer"]It could be anything.. like Korn or gangsta rap like fifty cent.. or Metallica.. or Slipknot... all these bands that would likely look down at the Strokes as being commercial and soft and not rebellious or badass.[/quote]

All four of those bands have appeared on TRL multiple times lol. When you said hardcore punk I was thinking Black Flag, Suicidal Tendancies, Husker Du ect.

It could be anything.. like Korn or gangsta rap like fifty cent.. or Metallica.. or Slipknot... all these bands that would likely look down at the Strokes as being commercial and soft and not rebellious or badass.

I'm a little confused here, what is your definition of hardcore music? Just name a couple of bands so I know where you're coming from :).

Hi Junnie... I didn't mean bigger than punk.. I meant more rebellious than punk. Think of it this way.. what if Kurt Cobain did a pop album after his Nevermind album... what if he made a song like 11th dimension.. I think that would take more balls than anything he ever did.. what I am saying is that it is really more rebellious to go the direction Julian did with 111th dimension now than it would be to make a hardcore album.. especially because of how he did it.. it's like Pop but mixed with classical elements. So it doesn't even fit in the pop sphere really.. I think this is the exact same thinking he had when he created the strokes too.. I view him as more rebellious than a cobain or any of those hardcore bands now days... those kinds of bands are trendy and safe to me.. I think that is why Julian and the Strokes have taken so much sh!t for so long.

nah, i don't think the musical motive behind 11th dimension is revolutionary enough to be "bigger" than punk rock - true punk rock doesn't seem to exist these days, anyway. sure, julian may not have made his music to conform to what society necessarily "wants", but i don't think he's the punk rock of our generation. i do think he's a genius, though, haha. he's made a good pop song, and i appreciate that.

however, none of us have heard the rest of the album, so who knows? maybe this'll be huge.

[quote="elledriver"]eh, in the beginning they were kinda sold as rock 'n' roll bad asses, the first articles focused on the drinking, drugging, whoring, fist fighting, and julian's "tragic" rich badboy deal. The thing that screwed that up was the first rolling stone article and this message board lol. Real rock people hated the hype more than the actual band/music.

And their music is based around garage, punk, nu-wave, post-punk, reggae, and grunge; all established genres.[/quote]

That's what I just said.. they had elements but they didn't fit in any established genre.. they were too arty to be considered a modern garage rock band... not art enough to be considered intellectual like Radiohead.. not enough reggae to be reggae... too melodic and arty and soft to be considered punk..

And I think being sold as hardcore -- fighting and drinking -- but not playing hardcore music made them be consuidered sellouts like a Green day but even more so than Green day... I think this is why Julian went the direction he did for Room on Fire.. it wasn't as punkish as Is This It.. and was more nu wave... and nu wave doesn't even really exist anymore.. at least the kind of Nuwave the Strokes were doing.. Nick V said something aobut this too.. about them filling a void... but because it was a void it wasn't accepted either.. but they also weren't pure nu wave either.. they were an amalgam... and that isn't accepted for some reason. That's the point I am trying to get at... not fitting in one genre is very rebellious today...

eh, in the beginning they were kinda sold as rock 'n' roll bad asses, the first articles focused on the drinking, drugging, whoring, fist fighting, and julian's "tragic" rich badboy deal. The thing that screwed that up was the first rolling stone article and this message board lol. Real rock people hated the hype more than the actual band/music.

And their music is based around garage, punk, nu-wave, post-punk, reggae, and grunge; all established genres.

You have to realize though... the image of being a badass rebel IS mainstream... I think the Strokes were slammed because they were so unpretentious in that way.. I think this is why they weren't embraced.. they weren't pop like Nsync.. and they weren't intellectual and artsy and pretentious like Radiohead... and they weren't hardcore like metal band.. this is why I think they were TRUE rebels.. they didn't make their music based on some established genre.. they had elements of all different kinds of music but not enough to be embraced by them.. I think this is what made them so great... and despised at the same time...

The new single sounded pretty much like nu-wave with some garage thrown in to me, both of which have been around long enough to earn their own conventions.

Well, it's hard to compare the strokes mainstream popularity (don't be mistaken they have quite a bit) with Nirvana's because they way music is marketed/shared has changed so drastically. Another (probably the biggest) factor is management. Nirvana was managed well, The Strokes weren't. In the end The Strokes are much more mainstream and and easier sell to a mass market than Nirvana. They're "like the Monkees with a drinking problem". At the end of the day you could take Julian home to met mom and she'd find him adorable...you couldn't do that with Kurt.

The masses didn't get into the strokes because of shitty management/pr plain and simple. It has nothing to do with their music being too artistically complex or ahead of its time, 'cause it ain't.

idk, knowing you knows more about music than me, ask him lol.

Right.. but GreenDay took their music from rebellious music.. but forget Green Day probably not the best example but Green Day illustrates how punk has become mainstream... but ANY punk now is kind of cliched.. it's like an established genre.. with rules and guidelines that makes it punk rock.. The Strokes and especially 11th dimension don't fit in any genre really IMO.. This is why I find them more punk rock than punck rock. Within their context at least...

It's like how Nirvana was supposed to be rebellious.. but they were more popular than the Strokes.. so which one is really more mainstream? Which one is more subversive? Which one is more inventive and cutting edge?

green day were never rebellious. 11th dimension fits into the late '00 "indie" zeitgeist to me.