Getting really sick of Phoenix

Oct 04

Getting really sick of Phoenix

Posted by Max Fischer on

It's bad enough I have to see Phoenix all over biting the Strokes shit... but then to have to see that goddman Cadillac commercial all the time that sounds exactly like the Strokes.. it's TOO much!

It's as if the Strokes said "we don't want to be the Strokes anymore"... so these little French punks stole their schtick.

Replies for this Forum Topic

I forgot to post this video...

http://www.vimeo.com/6943466

Watch this shit and tell me Phoenix aren't the ultimate complete Strokes biters.. "fifth Phoenix"... LMFAO

This Dbag saying the first album is his favorite reminds me of Julian saying his favorite song is "A Change is gonna come".. this dude is literally just stealing Jules soul.. lol

It's true Julian is much different not doing drugs. He seems much more serious and his music seems more serious not drinking..he's gloomier..

[quote="Max Fischer"]

What's weird though is that they kind of split up when Julian sobered up. I wonder why that is?[/quote]

Hahaha, it's like how Aerosmith started sucking once they stopped doing heroin. Not that the Strokes should start doing heroin, mind you...

Watch this shit and tell me Phoenix aren't the ultimate complete Strokes biters.. "fifth Phoenix"... LMFAO

This Dbag saying the first album is his favorite reminds me of Julian saying his favorite song is "A Change is gonna come".. this dude is literally just stealing Jules soul.. lol

[quote]by theroomisonfire on Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:17 am

Max Fischer wrote:

It's as if the Strokes said "we don't want to be the Strokes anymore"....

more like

Julian- Ya anytime you guyez are ready....soon...anytime...
Albert- Fuck that shit rehab is cooler
Nick- Beards are fuckin awsome
Nikolai- *runs*
Fab- I look good with short hair..right..RIGHT???[/quote]

I love you xDD

Right Brain Traits:

Intuitive: Follows hunches, or feelings, takes leaps of logic.
Nontemporal: having little or no awareness of time.
Random: arranges events and actions haphazardly.
Causal and Informal: deals with information on basis of need or interest at the time.
Concrete: relates to things as they are commonly known or understood. Explicit, precise.
Holistic: sees whole things all at one, overall patterns. Leading to divergent ideas.
Visual: uses imagery, responds to pictures, colors, shapes.
Nonverbal: responds to tones, music, body language, touch.
Visuo-spatial: uses intuition to estimate, perceives shapes.
Responsive: listens to music.
Originative: interest in ideas and theories imaginatively.
Emotional: suspicious judgment until it feels or seems right.
Learning: through exploration

Left Brain Traits:

Methodical: organizes information, classifies, categorizes, structures.
Temporal: keeps track of time, thinks in terms of past, present, future.
Sequential: arranges events and actions in consecutive succession.
Linear: thinks in terms of sequence, one thought directly following another. Leads to convergent conclusions.
Factual: deals with details, items, the particulars, features of a thing.
Verbal: used words to name, describe, and define things.
Systematic and Formal: processes information methodically, in a well-planned way.
Learning: through systematic plans

A stereotypical ADD child is doing poorly in school and is a complete whiz on computers. Why? Partly because computers are best learned intuitively. Just sit down and start hitting buttons, and see what happens. Do it enough, and that subconscious intelligence starts picking up complex patterns and relationships. The intuitor begins to get an instinct for what to try next, while the average person with predominant sensory intelligence lacks this advantage and wants detailed written instructions or someone to teach them each new thing they do on the computer. I suspect this is one reason why intuitors are so over-represented on the internet.

Intuitors have differences in how they perceive and retain information. Their memories are often impressionistic and lacking detail. One ENTP intuitor described it this way:

"I was 10 when I realized that I was in awe of my S [sensory intelligence] mother's memory. She'd describe every detail of a store, recall the exact coarseness of the velvet upholstery, remember photographically where a slightly skewed landscape painting was hung, remark upon how the clerk's left cuff link was tarnished and his thumbnail broken; meanwhile, I'd recall that the place seemed dark and cluttered, maybe dusty, and that the clerk might have been a man. I knew that there was a secret world of miniscule, fleeting and sometimes glaring things which was visible to most earthlings, but rarely to me; that's why the kids called me "space cadet" and waited to watch me trip on the sidewalk cracks. I knew that, in the classroom, they "saw or heard, then remembered" - while I never saw and never heard, and usually had to figure out what I should have remembered. Even though I usually had the answer right, I regarded them as superior; my mother and my classmates seemed gifted with especially acute senses while I was burdened with the need to compensate for my poor powers of observation. Fortunately my N [intuitive] father was also a descendent of the Space Cadet Clan - as spaced out, zoned out, ditzy, "in the clouds" and oblivious as I was - and, as the philosophical extraterrestrial told the stuttering spaceman, I knew that I 'was not alone'.... "

Intuitors lose detail, but more often get the big picture. They are also good at coming up with ideas, concepts, and relationships that others miss. Hallowell says that ADDers are highly intuitive and have "flashes of brilliance."

My own personal example: In English Class, my peers were discussing a book we had all read. I couldn't remember the names of any characters or places, dates, or even the sequence of events which occurred in the story, and felt truly stupid. Granted, I had skimmed entire paragraphs in my rush to read the book at the last minute. OK, I skimmed some pages. Alright, I admit I completely skipped a few of the middle chapters, but the point is, I couldn't remember any detail and was mortified that everyone else could. But when our written summaries of the book were graded, the professor pulled me aside after class and said I was the only person in the class who really understood what the story was about . And he said he would have given me an A, but my spelling was horrible and my paper too sloppy. (I've been working on my spelling ever since.)

Types of intelligence:

For the purpose of this page, there are three types of intelligence; the following definitions come from usage in the biology and temperament fields.

1. Instinct. This is now thought to be inherited intelligence unique to a particular species. Like a hard disc with information on it before it leaves the factory. For example, a bird knows to sing a certain song, and a dog knows to growl when angry. Humans instinctively know to suckle when infants. Children (and adults) are instinctive afraid of spiders and snakes unless taught otherwise. Many adults will jump with fright when startled by a big spider, followed by embarrassment because they know the spider is harmless.

2. Intuitive Intelligence. Intuitive intelligence is the ability to learn complex skills and solve problems on a subconscious basis; for example, a child learning to speak without learning the rules of grammar. The rules of grammar actually were learned, but the child cannot tell you want they are. This type of intelligence is particularly powerful at picking up patterns in a seemingly chaotic situation. When the right answer to a complex problem pops into your head but you can't figure out how you came up with it, it's probably the product of your intuition. Important: Intuitive intelligence is better at solving certain types of complex problem than our conscience, sensory intelligence.

3. Sensory Intelligence. As described by Jung, sensory intelligence is our ability to think logically and to learn new facts in our world. As children grow up, their ability to learn intuitively appears to decrease as their ability to think methodically and logically increases.

Everyone people possess all three types of intelligence. Sensory intelligence is what we normally think of as intelligence because it is conscience thinking, while the other two types are more mysterious and subsequently discounted. Intuitive intelligence is used to identify relationships and concepts while sensory intelligence is used in remembering details and linear thinking.

The Intuitive Brain

ADDers are often said to be highly intuitive. What is intuition? First of all, it's not ESP, and it's not instinct, although the word intuition has historically been used that way. It's an extremely important and powerful form of non-linear intelligence, useful for deciphering patterns from chaotic situations.

I've run across several references to ADDers being highly intuitive, including "The Hidden Gifts of ADD" by Ned Hallowell, M.D. Intuition is form of subconscious intelligence possibly used by the right brain to discern complex patterns and relationships. It is highly underrated. All small children learn primarily through intuition, and at an extremely fast pace (gee, they also have short attention spans, are impulsive, and fidget a lot....hmmm). For example, they learn to speak complex sentences through "absorption," without having any understanding of grammar. Imagine if you had to teach every child language by explaining to them that each sentence must have a noun. You don't, because their subconscious biological computer called intuition has already figured that out, without the child's knowledge. Music is also learned intuitively. People cannot usually explain that the pattern of first, third and fifth notes on the scale has a pleasing sound to their ears because of the mathematical relationship of vibration wavelengths. But our subconscious intelligence knows these relationships. Small children given intense music lessons have sudden increases in their mathematical abilities.

[quote="knowing you"][quote="Max Fischer"]You probably wouldn't believe me anyway.[/quote]

correct. That post was ridiculous.[/quote]

[quote]Do you realise how conceited that sounds?[/quote]

No, what is ridiculous is that you are the one who is supposedly studying music and YOU didn't notice the classical music elements incorporated in 11th Dimension and I did..

If that doesn't illustrate my point to you nothing will.

[quote="Max Fischer"]You probably wouldn't believe me anyway.[/quote]

correct. That post was ridiculous.

How about when you didn't detect a classical influence in 11th Dimension and even after I explained it to you you still didn't get it.. now go read the reviews for 11th Dimension.

How about the fact that I felt a strong connection to Julian and I myself am an inventor and Julian claims he is interested in inventing? I had no idea about that at all when I felt a connection to Julian. How many musicians do you know that are interested in inventing? I could probably go on.. but I don't keep track of all my predictions and them being proven right... to me it doesn't seem like a big deal.. the only time I notice it is when I talk about something and people argue with me and act like I am nuts and something seems incredibly obvious to me and is proven out.

Another example is how I felt Julian was responsible for basically everything with the Strokes music.. I argued about that with many people here.. now you hear Julian saying how that was an issue in the band -- him being in control of everything.

Another one.. this one is so weird it does seem like clairvoyance.. One day I had a strong feeling that the Strokes 4th album would be called Phoenix.. or have something to do with a Phoenix rebirth.. I made a comment on here predicting that... then just a couple days later I saw Phoenix for the first time on Saturday Night Live and they sounded EXACTLY like the Strokes... you might even say IN A VERY WEIRD WAY that Phoenix's album is the 4th Strokes album.

But most of my predictions/insights don't have anything to do with the Strokes.. thy are in other fields of interest.. and I really don't want to get into all that. You probably wouldn't believe me anyway.

I don't remember any occasion of you being proved right

Read this... http://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/ There are certain brain types that are highly intuitive. This is real science here.. not some scam. I myself am EXTREMELY right brained.. which is highly intuitive but I am extremely weak left brain.

Knowing Yoiu.. it sounds conceited for you to say that... everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses.. believe me.. I have my strengths and weaknesses. The ability to see things others don't just happens to be one of my strengths.

I can understand how you would think it sounds nuts.. but I ALWAYS go through this kind of thing.. I am always fighting the "establishment" arguing something like crazy.. and THEN I end up being proven right and then the people I was arguing with disappear or say "yeah, we always knew that". And it's not clairvoyance.. it's perception. I have the ability to absorb a ton of different information from all over all at once.. but it can be a curse too...

9 times out of 10 the current is going against you for a reason.

You're not some sort of clairvoyant with some sixth sense for [i]what's really going on[/i]. Do you realise how conceited that sounds?

Thanks man. :)

Now that you mention it you may have summed me up pretty well. I think there might be something wrong with my brain that causes me to see things the way they really are rather than how society chooses to see things. It can be a double-edged sword because you see some fascianting things.. but it's painful going against the current most of the time.

to everybody that hates max.. ...... to be honest hes right about most of the things that he says. he isnt complaining just stating facts.. and he speaks with such realness....

I wish I could really comment on this but I've only heard "Lisztomania" (which I enjoy) and from that video and song, I don't really think that they're trying to be the next Strokes, or "robbing" the Strokes of their sound. Looking at the lyrics of Lisztomania, I can see how easy it would be to say that it's in Julian's familiar "phrasing" style, but perhaps they were inspired by The Strokes to write the song that way. It's much like a tribute, in my perspective. Plus, it's still uniquely "them", I think.

It's also possible that they followed a Strokey-sounding structure* and then reworked it into their own sound. There's nothing wrong with being influenced by the greatest band of our time, as long as nothing is taken to complete extremes.

But who knows. Maybe they weren't inspired by The Strokes at all.

*EDIT: Alliteration!

[quote="TheEngineer"]Yo, i am really happy for you, i'ma let you finish.
But Albert Hammond Jr. had one of the best records of all tiime![/quote]

Albert is definitely one of the best Strokes cover bands. :D

[quote="TheEngineer"]Yo, i am really happy for you, i'ma let you finish.
But Albert Hammond Jr. had one of the best records of all tiime![/quote]
thats sexy

Yo, i am really happy for you, i'ma let you finish.
But Albert Hammond Jr. had one of the best records of all tiime!

Thanks for talking about that, Cory. I think most people's lives are fucked up in one way or another. Look at Julian.. you would think his life would be the greatest ever.. but he's sad and depressed a lot and has a lot of demons. I'm glad you are feeling better and your successful. That's really cool. Good inspiration.

I kind of feel like Julian in that way in that I feel like I could pretty easily have a "successful" life by a lot of people's standards.. like people would think the Strokes would be enough for him to be happy. But h e has higher aspirations. He knows he has more potential. That;s how I feel.. I feel like I have to reach my potential to be fulfilled.

Okay ,I agree if you really feel that way then it's totally justified.

I listen to the strokes music constantly because since the first time I heard them they were my favorite. It's something about 'Is This It' and 'Room On Fire' that would never separate me from their music.

Furthermore, I dated this girl for 3 years and lived with my family in Napa Valley. But then that girl left me, and my family moved to florida. I went down this spiral of depression and drug abuse. But, I got through, and moved away to a new place and started fresh. I am a Biochemistry major, and doing quite well in life now.

Basically, to me, the strokes represent a very sentimental time of my life. When I hear there tunes, it makes me proud of the hard times I went through. Their music represents those times, and in a way, empowers me and makes me even stronger.

That's my excuse. although I don't know what I'm excusing... I guess just being apart of this strange online obsessive community.

I appreciate the support, Pozhiin.

[quote]about how wrong and weak your sources[/quote]

You can support me and still have a conversation though.. I would love to hear your argument.. that's why we are here, right? What the hell else are we going to talk about? :D

As a strokes fan i support your beliefs because you are too a strokes fan. right now i can come up with all this shit about how wrong and weak your sources are but I'm not gonna. why? because if that makes you happy my friend then so be it. its all about respect towards each other as strokes fans. i actually think its pretty cool how you can reference a bunch of shit to julian. very neat. 8-)

Cory, thanks for commenting and trying to help. Keep in mind though.. i have noticed that a lot of people think I have an unhealthy obsession with things but what they don't realize is that this is just how I am wired.. and it isn't just with the Strokes or even Julian.

I just put 1000% into everything... I guess you could say I am an extremist. I think people think It is just the Strokes or any other certain subject I am obsessed with because they don't see all the other things I am interested and spend time on. and even with Julian and the Strokes I don't really spend much time researching.. I just have a lot of interests and just pick up a lot of weird info because that is how my mind works.

I will admit I am kind of a weird person.. but that can be a good or bad thing I guess... depending how you look at it.

Also, I have a history of being right about things.. this is why I follow my instincts on things so much. If I was wrong about stuff then I could see what you are saying.. but since my instincts are usually right why not follow them?

I will show you a couple little examples.. for some reason I have always felt this weird connection with Julian -- since I first heard him. Then one time I was showing my best friend a video of Julian because he wasn't familiar with him and the first thing my friend said is that I looked like Julian... I can't think of anyone I really look like other than Julian..

Another one -- I am an inventor myself.... and in the most recent interview from Julian he said he is interested in inventing things... how odd is that? How many people do you know who are into inventing.. especially musicians...

What's my point in bringing these things up? I guess it's just that from the beginning my gut instinct was that I had this strange connection with Julian and myself AND I felt he was freakishly talented... oh yeah.. and i also love Julian's music like no other... not even close.. I literally enjoy every song Julian has ever made.. with other artists they maybe have one or two songs I like and that is it.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that I feel like my obsession with Julian is justified.. I feel like this all has some profound significance on my life..

Don't get me wrong though.. I'm not like a stalker or something.. I don't think Julian and I are connected in some real way in life.. I just feel like his story and his life has some significance to mine. there is some message there that is related to me.. Maybe I can learn something from him? I am not sure what the real significance is yet. The biggest thing is that I rarely find people in life that I relate to at all... so I feel like I better pay serious attention to the ones that I do relate to. Julian just happens to be one of those people. And not just a little bit with him.. it's a LOT.

Max,

I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, I just wanted you to that.

I read these boards a lot...still, I just don't comment much anymore.

Anyways, Max, I am going to tell you that I think you over analyze for too much into absolutley everything that has to do with the strokes. To be frank, I think you might have an unhealthy obsession with the strokes and julian casablancas. Don't get me wrong,I think they are the best in the world, and I do just about anything to play music with them, hang out, etc.

But, I do think you have an obsession here, and after seeing how much research you do, and how you try to criticaly think and analyze all these things... the more I thiink that a guy like you shouldd be in school applying his brain to more academic things. You're brain obviously works quite well, so go to school and make something of yourself.

If I had comapre you to somebody now, it would be russel crowe in a beautiful mind. He is a super genious that wastes his time on this schizophrenic shit... you're not crazy but you are wasting you're talents here on this message board.

Hope you can see that I'm not trying to offend you, but rather help you in a way.

[quote]and that problem is that Phoenix was around before the Strokes. He sings the same way now that he sung in 2001...so I'm not sure you can say he's ripping Julian off. [/quote]

Actually his music was completely different then than his strokes stuff.. So I would say this is an indicator that he is biting them rather than the other way around... if he just appeared now and was playing like the Strokes he could say that's just his style.. but he has proven his style is not the Strokes sound...

[quote="coxcommunicationz"]and that problem is that Phoenix was around before the Strokes. He sings the same way now that he sung in 2001...so I'm not sure you can say he's ripping Julian off.
Just realize that phoenix was here before the strokes, including their overall sound (even though it has changed some) and the mannerisms,etc.....
They're just a pretty good band that are very comparable to the Strokes, and I think thats about it...[/quote]
Impeccable logic. I agree.

Aside from that, when someone says they do not hear an influence and claims the person who does is the moron, maybe the person who doesn't hear the influence is actually the one lacking. I say this because I was once talking to a Lou Reed fan and told him, "You can tell Reed's song VICIOUS is a reworking of SWEET JANE." And this guy told me he couldn't hear that at all, and how stupid I was to say that. And shortly after--don't cha know--I saw Lou Reed interviewed on TV and he said that VICIOUS was a reworking of SWEET JANE.

Anyway, even though everyone freaks when I say it, I still think Julian with 11th DIMENSION might have been influenced by Ricky Martin's LIVIN' LA VIDA LOCA.

like it said on the article, julians first songs were highly influenced by the velvet underground. So if you listen to pre ISI. _eg. the rythm song, sagganuts, soho shuffle_ it sounds just like it. hell just listen to "this life", it sounds very similar to rock and roll. and i believe sister ray, run run run do sound pretty close to the strokes. you know that song "white light/white heat"? well doesnt that sound pretty barely legal-ish? Especially their EP. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5bRt045Kcg

i do. theres ALOT of connections. and like you said yourself. julian made something better of it. something diffrent but with the same roots. PLUSL i never said specific strokes songs sounded like the velvet underground, all i said was that they sounded similar to their stuff.

Cox, that last video you posted does sound similar to the Strokes but it doesn't sound as good to me. That's what I was getting at if the "biter" makes something better then it ceases to be biting IMO. AND Julian added a lot of cool elements to it. This is what separated the Strokes from a band like Wolfmother so much to me.. to me Wolfmother was just biting older music and adding nothing to it really. The Strokes took somehting older and added some really cool elements to it making it new and different.. that's how music evolves as I see it. To me not only is Phoenix biting way TOO much but they really aren't adding anything new. I see Phoenix as a step backwards rather than forwards or even laterally.

[quote="Max Fischer"]Pozhin, could you show me some VU songs on Youtube that sound like the Strokes?[/quote]

Here's at least one song that reminds me of the strokes. I listened to the strokes before I ever got into VU, and everytime I heard this I thought of the strokes...especially the early strokes (they obviously have a bit of a different sound now)....you may disagree, but whatever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsTFCA2zeMI

The Immortals - The Greatest Artists of All Time: 19) The Velvet Underground
[b]By Julian Casablancas[/b]

Posted Apr 15, 2004 12:00 AM

When you listen to a classic-rock station today, why don't they play the Velvet Underground? Why is it always Boston and Led Zeppelin? And why are the Rolling Stones so much more popular than the Velvets? OK, I understand why the Stones are more popular. But there is also a part of me that has always felt that it should have been the other way around. The Velvet Underground were way ahead of their time. And their music was weird. But it also made so much sense to me. I couldn't believe this wasn't the most popular music ever made.
Listening to those four studio albums now is like reading a good book that takes place in a distant time. When I hear The Velvet Underground and Nico or Loaded, I feel like I'm in Andy Warhol's Factory in the 1960s or hanging out at Max's Kansas City. The way Lou Reed wrote and sang about drugs and sex, about the people around him -- it was so matter-of-fact. I believed every word of "Heroin." Reed could be romantic in the way he portrayed these crazy situations, but he was also intensely real. It was poetry and journalism.

A lot of people associate the Velvets with feedback and noise. White Light/White Heat is the kind of record you have to be in the mood for. You have to be in a shitty bar, in a really shitty mood. But the Velvets created some very beautiful music, too: "Sunday Morning," with John Cale's viola; "Candy Says"; "All Tomorrow's Parties" -- I can't imagine that song without Nico singing it, although I thought Maureen Tucker had a cool voice, as well as being a really cool drummer. She had a femininity. I thought she sounded hotter than Nico.

In the beginning, the Strokes definitely drew from the vibe of the Velvets. I listened to Loaded all the time when we started the band, while I was writing my first songs. For four solid months, it was just Loaded and this Beach Boys greatest-hits record, Made in the U.S.A. A lot of our guitar tones are based on what Reed and Sterling Morrison did.

[b]I honestly wish we could have copied them more. We didn't come close enough. But that was cool, because it became more of our own thing. Which is something else I got from the Velvets. They taught me just to be myself.[/b]

Max, I agree with a lot of what you said, and I understand what you mean a little better now. But there is still one problem with this feeling that Phoenix just came out of nowhere and ripped off the whole blueprint of the Strokes...and that problem is that Phoenix was around before the Strokes. While I admit that their sound and fashion sense has changed over the 10 years (hasn't every ones though?) they've been a band, you can see many a video displaying the exact mannerisms they show now. He sings the same way now that he sung in 2001...so I'm not sure you can say he's ripping Julian off. Here's one small example (I don't have time to find more)....

Singing mannerisms pre-Is This It
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwKOWJVsaRM&feature=PlayList&p=5918B954F2...
I admit in this video he is dressed like a complete dork...so you can say his style has improved drastically over the years, but it would be hard to say he looked to the strokes specifically for inspiration...since he now looks like every other indie band person out there...

Overall I would say that their sound hasn't changed much either...a lot of United is weird, but a lot of it could have made it onto the new album....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhwufCg7THM&feature=PlayList&p=378080C6C9...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHUWosmwVl0

Again, I admit Phoenix reminds me of the strokes in a lot of ways, and maybe they have ripped a few things off...but I don't think it's as bad or expansive as you make it seem. I think the biting is no worse than what strokes do with other bands...
Just realize that phoenix was here before the strokes, including their overall sound (even though it has changed some) and the mannerisms,etc.....
They're just a pretty good band that are very comparable to the Strokes, and I think thats about it...

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/92/020304_Final_Filter.jpg[/img]

Pozhin, could you show me some VU songs on Youtube that sound like the Strokes?

i think phoenix sounds more like the killers and modest mouse. well atleast 1901 does. and i have heard alot of velvet underground's stuff and i believe it is very similar to the strokes. simple chord strumming patterns with a psychadelic-ish feel to it. i see it.

[quote]I agree that the STrokes don't sound like VU...not any more than Phoenix sounds like the Strokes. To say that Phoenix looks and acts like the strokes and that he pieces phrases together like Julian is almost comical...aren't all songs a bunch of phrazes stringed together?[/quote]

All I am saying is that I see him using the EXACT same patterns as Julian.. I heard the Killers lead singer doing the same thing.. and no.. I don't think most songs are like this.. I thought that was Julian's little invention. He takes all these common "phrazes".. sayings.. and takes all different ones and builds a scene out of them... and the impact is intense.. I see the Phoenix guy doing the same thing.. and again.. he just happens to be dating Sophia Coppola.. who is a HUGE Strokes fan.. I didn't find that out until AFTER I noticed they were bitin the Strokes too...

[quote]You're using other people's opinons that Phoenix sounds like the Strokes to back your claims? Again, pissin in the well you drink out of...couldn't I counter that EVERY music journalist claims the strokes to be a VU rip off band? Just cause you don't hear it, 50,000 other people do. Just don't be bothered that Phoenix sounds like the strokes, and enjoy their shit, its pretty good.[/quote]

But what If Julian dressed exactly like Lou Reed.. and made his voice sound like him.. and styled his hair like him and did everything exactly like him.. then how would you feel? Basically what you are saying is that because people say Julian copied other bands I can't say Phoenix is copying the Strokes.. this is probably why Phoenix thought they could get away with it.. All I can do is say what I believe.. who's right? How can you know? All I can do is go with my gut -- what I believe...

[quote]And if you're going to reply, please don't just repeat yourself. Do the following for me:
1. Go youtube Rebel, Rebel by David Bowie...and tell me what you hear. The main riff specifically... Can you hear it? Can you hear the EXACT SAME FUCKING riff as 11th Dimension? It's exactly the same, so if you can't hear it, get your ears checked.[/quote]

Like I said though.. I don't have a problem with some things sounding similar.. because it's impossible to make something that has never been heard before... BUT Julian made something that sounds new... Phoenix did not imo. and they aren't just taking one or two elements from the Strokes.. but a TON. I just view it as levels.. and Phoenix crossed the line IMO.

Also.. again.. id Julian does bit something at least he doesn't jut bite from the most popular band of the moment.. and he doesn't do it so dramatically. And hell.. even when he did take something from Tom Petty he even admitted it and Petty thought it was cool.. and Julian made something better with it IMO. That's a big part of it too. If you take something and actually make something better with it I give you a lot more respect. If you take something and make something worse the you deserve being called a biter IMO.

[quote]2. What song, specifically, of the Strokes, is Phoenix ripping off? To me, 1901 doesn't really sound like anything the strokes have done, unless your talking about their overall sound in general. And if that's the case, the strokes overall sound (and image) in general comes from a lot of fucking bands, including VU (you think they invented floppy hair, leather jackets, tight jeans, and converse shoes?). Again, you can't make the argument against Phoenix and ignore the same argument against the strokes--it's impossible.[/quote]

But the Strokes didn't just bite one band.. you can say all of their stuff comes from something before.. but it didn't all come from one place.. again.. you are saying because people say the Strokes copied you can't say Phoenix copied.. I don't buy it.... IMO Phoenix DID copy and the Strokes didn't.. so I guess it's a he said she said thing..

[quote]There's something else I wanted to add...
I know your problem with Phoenix isn't that they're exactly ripping off the strokes musically (like 11th dimension and david bowie)...its more that they're trying to be like the strokes in general. So I just want to add that Phoenix is about the 7,678th band to do this...think of all the brit bands and american bands that came out over the years that look, talk and walk kind of like the strokes.[/quote]

Maybe because the Strokes have been around so long it is easier to identify how they work.. like it took time to fully reverse engineer the Strokes and Phoenix was the first ones to do it so close.?

[quote]But the weird thing is, is that it doesn't bother me, I almost think its cool...it's just a tribute to how fuckin cool the strokes are.[/quote]

What doesn't make sense though is that the Strokes were dissed as copycats but Phoenix isn't.. and they actually ARE copycats.. so it doesn't make sense... I mean look at Knowing You saying I just love Julian so much so I am irrational.. but the Strokes got shit and these guys aren't.. it makes no sense... it seems like Phoenix is even being embraced more than the Strokes... critically and commercially.. and they are the biters! Hell.. they aren't even american and are doing"American".. lol

[quote]If the band sucks, I find it annoying (think Tokyo Police Club) but if the band is good, I could give a shit. Phoenix is good (not in life changing sort of way, just a good enjoyable listen sort of way). Kings of Leon are good, the Libertines are good, the Arctics are good...all of thos bands "ripped" the strokes off in a way (most of them admittedly)...and it's not really a bad thing. So if you don't like Phoenix--fine, don't like them, but I don't think you should contribute that dislike to their similarity to the strokes--because to wrap my whole point up for the 15th time, people could and do get annoyed with the strokes in a smiliar fashion, because of the bands they at times seem to emmulate.[/quote]

I just think that even all those other bands you mention had more of their own personality in them than Phoenix.. at least in their most marketed songs.. and they weren't literally biting the Strokes mannerisms etc.. at least not that I know of.. if Phoenix had their own personality added to the Strokes schtick I wouldn't have such a problem with it...

[quote]This isn't some minor addition. I'll admit there there are some similarities between the two, but Phoenix take a much more electronic approach in their music. I could potentially see The Strokes writing something like "1901" or "Lisztomania" (but they didn't, Phoenix did, so just sit back and enjoy it regardless), but "Love Like a Sunset" is pretty far removed from anything The Stokes would do.

[/quote]

To me it sounds exactly like the Strokes but they tacked on a keyboard and synth. To me that isn't a big deal at all, it's just a means of trying to mask that they are completely copying the Strokes. And it seems to have worked very well...

[quote]I'm not going to change your opinion....fuck, at this stage I know that it's pretty much impossible to dent your love of Julian, but I just don't think he's the innovator you think he is. He's a great songwriter; no more, no less.[/quote]

I think you have the wrong interpretation of my feelings about Julian.. it's not so much that I think Julian is so great or a genius.. it's that I think so poorly of everyone else in the music industry... and I mean everyone! Not that other fields are full of geniuses.. but music is one of the more creatively and intellectually bankrupt fields. I think it has about as much credibility as the porn industry... by those standards Julian sticks out like a sore thumb..

There's something else I wanted to add...
I know your problem with Phoenix isn't that they're exactly ripping off the strokes musically (like 11th dimension and david bowie)...its more that they're trying to be like the strokes in general. So I just want to add that Phoenix is about the 7,678th band to do this...think of all the brit bands and american bands that came out over the years that look, talk and walk kind of like the strokes. But the weird thing is, is that it doesn't bother me, I almost think its cool...it's just a tribute to how fuckin cool the strokes are. If the band sucks, I find it annoying (think Tokyo Police Club) but if the band is good, I could give a shit. Phoenix is good (not in life changing sort of way, just a good enjoyable listen sort of way). Kings of Leon are good, the Libertines are good, the Arctics are good...all of thos bands "ripped" the strokes off in a way (most of them admittedly)...and it's not really a bad thing. So if you don't like Phoenix--fine, don't like them, but I don't think you should contribute that dislike to their similarity to the strokes--because to wrap my whole point up for the 15th time, people could and do get annoyed with the strokes in a smiliar fashion, because of the bands they at times seem to emmulate.

Max,
I agree that the STrokes don't sound like VU...not any more than Phoenix sounds like the Strokes. To say that Phoenix looks and acts like the strokes and that he pieces phrases together like Julian is almost comical...aren't all songs a bunch of phrazes stringed together? You're using other people's opinons that Phoenix sounds like the Strokes to back your claims? Again, pissin in the well you drink out of...couldn't I counter that EVERY music journalist claims the strokes to be a VU rip off band? Just cause you don't hear it, 50,000 other people do. Just don't be bothered that Phoenix sounds like the strokes, and enjoy their shit, its pretty good.

And if you're going to reply, please don't just repeat yourself. Do the following for me:
1. Go youtube Rebel, Rebel by David Bowie...and tell me what you hear. The main riff specifically... Can you hear it? Can you hear the EXACT SAME FUCKING riff as 11th Dimension? It's exactly the same, so if you can't hear it, get your ears checked.

2. What song, specifically, of the Strokes, is Phoenix ripping off? To me, 1901 doesn't really sound like anything the strokes have done, unless your talking about their overall sound in general. And if that's the case, the strokes overall sound (and image) in general comes from a lot of fucking bands, including VU (you think they invented floppy hair, leather jackets, tight jeans, and converse shoes?). Again, you can't make the argument against Phoenix and ignore the same argument against the strokes--it's impossible.

[quote="Max Fischer"]All they did was add a keyboard and a synthesizer.[/quote]

This isn't some minor addition. I'll admit there there are some similarities between the two, but Phoenix take a much more electronic approach in their music. I could potentially see The Strokes writing something like "1901" or "Lisztomania" (but they didn't, Phoenix did, so just sit back and enjoy it regardless), but "Love Like a Sunset" is pretty far removed from anything The Stokes would do.

I'm not going to change your opinion....fuck, at this stage I know that it's pretty much impossible to dent your love of Julian, but I just don't think he's the innovator you think he is. He's a great songwriter; no more, no less.

Coxcomunicationz, I am sorry if my feelings offfend you.. I myself just don't see them remotely the same. People say the Strokes sound like all these different bands.. I personally don't hear it... they aren't even close to me.. The Strokes and velvet Underground? I don't get this one AT ALL... I don't think thy are anything alike. I don't understand it. The closest I heard was maybe Television.. but Television sounds nothing like the VU to me..

But with Pheonix it's IDENTICAL.. All the band members have copied the Strokes to a T.. same guitars.. same color.. the drummer drums EXACTLY like Fab... the singer copied Julian's song writing style of taking common phrases and stinging them together... he even holds the mic the same and swings it like Jules and knocks it over. I mean.. it's freaking VERBATIM. All they did was add a keyboard and a synthesizer.

Also.. I would like to point out I am not the only one to say this.. I have seen others specifically call Phoenix a Strokes cover band.. they don't say they are copying the Velvet Underground either.. or Television.. so what does that mean?

As for 11th dimension being derivative.. again.. this is the same thing.. Julian takes things from a lot of different bands.. but he made something entirely new with it. People who hear 11th dimension say they have never heard anything like it. They say it sounds 80s.. but at least Julain isn't copying stuff from right now.. like Phoenix or everyone else trying to bite the Strokes...

I just see them as totally different. I think you can't help sounding like other people to an extent But to me what Phoenix is doing is completely wrong. Especially because their most popular work that they perform most heavily is the Stroke stuff.

Julian said the VU is the one band [i]all [/i]the Strokes love.

Incidentally, one of the Rolling Stones' greatest songs is STRAY CAT BLUES, and here's what Mick Jagger said about it: [i]"I mean, even we've been influenced by the Velvet Underground... I'll tell you exactly what we pinched from [Lou Reed] too. You know STRAY CAT BLUES? The whole sound and the way it's paced we pinched from the very first Velvet Underground album. You know, the sound on HEROIN. Honest to God, we did."[/i]

(Before any indie snobs get too allergic to the Rolling Stones, remember the Strokes happily opened for them.)

Max, a few things...
You sound very petty complaining that Phoenix sounds like the Strokes...of course they do...you could make an argument that any decent band post 2001 with tight guitar riffs, a bass and drums sounds like the Strokes. And you can't say Phoenix sounds EXACTLY like the Strokes, just how you can't say the Strokes sound exactly like the Velvets. You work against yourself when you argue for one and against the other. Why can't you just enjoy Phoenix? As Knowing You already mentioned, it's a great fuckin album, regardless of whether they sound like the Strokes some or not.
To further my point, let's say that 11th Dimension was on the Caddilac commercial instead of 1901. Couldn't you imagine 40 year old hipsters getting annoyed with whatever band blatently ripped off New Order, David Bowie, Human League etc.? I'm not saying that 11th Dimension isn't the best fucking song of the year so far (it is), and I;m not saying that Julian isn't a genius (he is)--I'm not even saying he ripped this shit off...I'm just saying it kind of sounds like it (as much as Phoenix sounds like the Strokes at least). And since I know you want specific examples, go listen to Bowie's Rebel Rebel and tell me it's not eerily similar (the synth riff). And go listen to Bizzare Love Triangle by New Order. Hell, go listen to the synth riff of Springsteen's glory days, or Van Halen's Jump. Again, I'm not saying Julian ripped any of this off...maybe he paid homage to some of it or whatever, but my point is, is that sometimes good music sounds like good music--there's no blatant plagerism, and even if there was (we know Julian admitted to ripping Tom Petty off) I think of it as more of a tribute to the influence. Phoenix is no different...they've said so themselves on numerous occasions that the Strokes are huge influences, and that they contribute a lot of their sound to the band...You find this type of thing in all forms of art (today for example I found a few lines in Cormac McCarthy's Cities of the Plains that is word for word out of a Chekhov short story...do you think McCarthy was ripping him off? Of course not, he was just reittirrating a fuckin cool idea or truth that was universal and well written...) If that made sense.
So what's the problem with it? Or if you do have a problem with it, why don't you complain about the Strokes and Julian sounding like a lot of bands? When making a specific argument, you can't piss in the well you drink out of...

I have listened to all the people they say the Strokes are copying but I don't hear it.

That's the funny part though.. Phoenix is jacking the Strokes but no one accuses Phoenix of jacking the stuff the Strokes does. I wonder why that is? Maybe because Phoenix is a homogenized version of the Strokes sound...

Aw, well...to me the Strokes' whole sound is a blatant rip-off of The Velvet Underground's [i]I'm Waiting for the Man[/i]. Nothin' comes from nothin'.

It amazes me you can't see how blatantly Phoenix is ripping the Strokes.. I mean they are stealing their mannerisms.. the singer is copying Julian's songwriting style.. Julian's mannerisms.. it's truly sickening. I chalk it up to French socialism... they must think they are entitled to Jack the Strokes entire persona.

The funniest part is how the lead singer is dating Sophia Coppola -- a huge Strokes fan... I wonder which came first? Was the Phoenix guy going through Sophia's records? Or Did Sophia tell them they should copy the Strokes?

the Phoenix album is one of the best pop albums of the year

[quote]Julian- Ya anytime you guyez are ready....soon...anytime...
Albert- Fuck that shit rehab is cooler
Nick- Beards are fuckin awsome
Nikolai- *runs*
Fab- I look good with short hair..right..RIGHT???[/quote]

hahaha

I think what happens is that when you are so close to a guy like Julian he makes it look so easy.. because to him it is easy. And plus Julian has always treated them like they were equals.. so they just started believing it. Then they thought to theirself, "I can do that"... and when they started thinking that it was ALL over..

What's weird though is that they kind of split up when Julian sobered up. I wonder why that is?